A thief in the night Concerning Jesus coming as a thief in the night, just WHO will it be like that to? Isnt that an analogy for when a thief is trying to break into your home at midnight, where one is spiritually watching and ready, while the other is surprised because they are spiritually asleep? If thats not what the thief in the night analogy is about, then what did Paul mean with the following: 1Thes 5:1-4 1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. (KJV) So WHO will this sudden destruction and this travail be upon? Isnt it for those who are not spiritually awake at midnight, not knowing the times and seasons of our Lords coming? 1 Thes 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. (KJV) And with this verse by Paul, isnt it to those of Gods elect who will be aware of the main subject of times of seasons of Christs return? Therefore, as Paul stressed in this verse 4, Christs coming will be no surprise to His true followers, for they are aware of the signs and events (times and seasons) our Lord taught us all throughout His Word. (End of excerpt) What Dave was politely saying above is that those who are waiting for a Rapture are going to follow the first supernatural being who comes to earth claiming to be The Messiah from God. The only problem is that satan comes first as the antichrist claiming to be the Messiah BEFORE the true Jesus Christ returns at the Second Advent. The Rapturist however, will not know this and will end up worshiping the wrong one. So then when the true Jesus Christ returns at His Second Advent, He will be quite the surprise to the Rapturist (among many others of course). Ok Jane, then you supply: Matthew 24:30 (1)- See Also Zechariah 12:10-14 (2). This refers to His 2nd Coming with the Saints old and the raptured saints. See Also Zechariah 14:5 (3)- We come back with him at that time. Oh, really? Lets look at each one: (1). Matthew 24:30: Ok Jane, come-now. You supply verse 30 and attribute it to a rapture, but WHEN does verse 30 happen?!?!? look at verse 29! Matt 24:29-30 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (KJV) Jane, you simply cant take this Scripture apart and move time sequences to fit a Rapture theory. (2). Zechariah 12:10-14: Where is a Rapture in this Scripture? It is talking about the Second Advent of Jesus Christ. You should notice a familiar phrase: Zech 12:10 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (KJV) Rev 1:7 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye [not just Rapturists!] shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (KJV) Ps 22:16 16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. (KJV) John 19:34 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. (KJV) (3). Zechariah 14:5: This is a prophecy of the Second Advent, yes, a type, but you suppose that these saints are Rapture saints because you have been predisposed to believe that. Saint means set-aside one, chosen ones. Every time the Bible mentions saints you seem to automatically read Rapture saints, Jane, you cannot force that into Scripture, the context will not allow it. You must clear your head of the false Rapture teachings before you can hope to once again read the Scriptures as they are written. You unconsciously taint every Second Advent Scripture to mean, not a Second Advent, but a pre-second Advent Rapture that just simply isnt there. And it really does bug me when you Rapturists call yourself Saints! But anyway, below is the Scripture you mentioned, how can you read a Rapture in this verse? And youre not alone, stuff like this is what the whole Rapture doctrines are built around. One almost has to want to be deceived to actually go for this stuff! Zech 14:5 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. (KJV) You are also under the misconception that the dead are still in a hole in the ground in the cemetery, they are not, their souls are with God since the instant of death. It is those among the deceased that were overcommers over the generations that shall return with Christ as Saints. to help US! Stick with it Jane, and quit going to the Rapture doctors for Bible instruction or you will continue to make errors like the above. Your doing fine, your looking and asking (or stating), but trust the Scriptures as written, pray to God open them up to understanding, He will. Take your time and check everything I am telling here in your Bible. It is just so difficult to un-teach the misconceptions that have been taught about the Rapture. It is far easier to teach a new student who has no misconceptions firmly planted in his/her mind. But stick with it, what we are doing is pleasing to God, we are acting like those of Berea who found favor: These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17:11). And we are complying with the command: Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Posted on: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 23:20:34 +0000
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