I am definitely going to have to address this on the conspiracy Bereans radio show Wednesday night on mixlr and spreaker. Along with the confusion surrounding the article on the Egyptian creation myth paralleling the Genesis account. As one who has been involved in three different cults including the Jehovah Witnesses I can say with a certainty you will find cultic applications in any extreme form of faith. including Christianity. That being said, my testament to this understanding of biblical truth vs the cults may differ from my Protestant brethren where Christian roots are concerned. And what cannot be understood In writing sometimes must be lived out or infiltrated for further investigation. You cannot understand another man until youve walked a mile in his moccasins. My ten cents is simply this. I agree with the topic post Cris has shared (its probably posted on the news page instead of our community/biblical witness page as usual) but I.give him Grace because he does not come on here that often). Do I follow, Jim staley, Michael rood, Bill cloud or 119 ministries like a sheep to the slaughter allowing them to interpret scripture for me? The same could be said of Chuck missler and John micArthor who discipled me in my early Christian walk. Certainly not. My reformed view has changed over the 11 years Ive been a born again son of the King. Do i agree with all the Christian roots teachers no. I test them. Acts 17:11 I do not agree with identity crisis or the lost sheep teaching by 119 ministries because of Chris Rosenbergs analysis of the Genesis passage where the prophecy of Ephraim is concerned However there are other aspects to their teachings that have benefited my walk. 3 years ago I was going through the book of revelation for the fourth time at a Calvary chapel which is my home fellowship. I had questions. Questions no Protestant could answer to my satisfaction in commentaries or in-depth biblical studies. Questions about the roots of our faith. I wanted these questions answered like where did dispensation so theology come from? Where did once saved always saved come from? Where did the rapture come from? Why are Jews and Christians separated in the early church and the end time? Whatever happened to being united in one faith, one body, one spirit? The more i would dig in Protestant resources, the more unsettling and unedifying my faith became. I prayed to God before we began Revelation 1. Lord Jesus. please open my heart and eyes by your Holy Spirit to show me the answers I seek and help me to discern your truth. That was my prayer. With that prayer I was lead by the spirit to study Genesis and the rest of the Torah like never before. I began to see for the first time nothing legalistic about the law. But a means of living the faith to produce good fruit by the spirits leading and understanding of true law...not mans interpretation. At first I thought I was deceiving myself back into my old JW/catholic/KJV only days. But this was different, there was no fear of damnation or excommunication if I didnt follow a checklist for salvation. What I was reading was accounts by believers who were living their spirit filled walk and using the blessings of the law as a means of witnessing the love, light, joy, peace, salvation and holiness of Christ who is the author and finisher of our faith. I began to understand a deeper mean of what Christ meant by bearing fruit for his kingdom by faithful works of his spirit. A year later after my revelation study I came across Jim Staely and his ministry. It rubbed me the wrong way for good reason which is why I have stopped avidly listening to his topical sermons. Then I came upon 119. And I hated what they were teaching. So much so I stopped going to these law keeper sites. Then I came upon their teaching of Grace, Faith, and obedience. And I had to fight what they were teaching. But the more I tried to do so using Protestant theological arguments from my personal library, the more I got shot down. I began to notice something. Although there are extremes in every following this had backbone that was well researched and logical arguments that all of my Protestant upbringing could not refute. And what arguments I could find seemed vague in comparison like a candle being snuffed out. I began to take in meat that was becoming clearly biblical and spitting out the bones. There is still a lot that HRMs teach that I do not believe. And the same goes for mainstream scholars like mr Putnam. I distrust men altogether. Let God be true and every man a liar Romans 3 Today I am not a HRM/Christian roots follower because of what men have shown me. I am a follower because of what the Holy Spirit has shown me in his word and testing that word in the old and New Testament to see if it is true. I have never been as hungry and as devoted to understanding Gods word since I have started testing HRM doctrine to the fires of Protestant reformed 16-18 century theology and theories that permeate the modern church today. I still attend Protestant churches because I have a new zeal and love for The Lord that goes beyond sitting in a pew. Its a zeal to live my faith in his holiness and righteousness. The biggest misconceptions I see in this debate are as follows. 1. Hebrew/Christian roots followers are dumb sheep who are seduced by men, they apparently have no discernment of sound biblical exegesis or sound Christina doctrine, I.e. Jesus Christ deity, the trinity, Grace, salvation, sanctification, the Holy Spirit, etc. 2. Christ Putnams supernatural worldview comes into play here. There are two world views in conflict. That of first century Christianity as Jesus, and the apostles defined it. VS how 16 century Martin Luther Grace through faith alone Christianity, with much catholic baggage, has dictated a standard that is still apparent in the modern church that , while it should be there as the core biblical doctrine of salvation. a strong misappropriation of historical and cultural transference of doctrinal biases remain intent on stepping on the shoes of those who see the scripture in a light that does not fit such a world view. Grace + faith equals salvation. Anything apart from this that is remotely works related or smells of Old Testament Jewish culture or theology is deemed heretical, unless needed for historical clarification of a New Testament passage not perceived in the western mindset. 3. There are two physical laws at tensions with one another in the Gospels. That of the law of Moses which Christ said we should obey, along with many of his apostles. Not for salvation but to point the way to salvation, thus becoming salt and light and loving Gid and our neighbor in the process. The other law is that of man made tradition. Rabbinc oral orthodox modern Jewish law, the oral Torah compiled in the Talmud, midrrash, esoteric Kabbalah etc. This is known as the Tahianote. Jews of this sort believe the mosaic Torah but a rabbis word is considered greater if not equal to the Torah, this is what I and I would believe all of my HRM brethren would agree heartily is legalism and doctrines of demons strongly abound. This is the law Protestant scholars do not understand is what is being waged at and dismantled by Jesus and the apostles and the majority of biblically based Christian roots churches. As I study more of the old and New Testament in this light I see more clearly what our savior was preaching for in obedience to holiness vs working your way legalistically. Paul condemned legalism but upheld the law of God in the biblical Torah (Romans 3). So did Jesus and Stephen. They were consequently accused by the religious leaders of teaching against the law to which they denied and showed in the midst of preaching the gospel or in honoring in love the brethren of the early church to do works to expose such doctrinal error faith in sincerity and not out of legalistic pride (Acts 21, acts 10). Such works are obviously lead by the Holy Spirit and not of man made tradition. They are the fruits of our salvation that point towards the root of our salvation. Jesus Christ. 4. These laws have spiritual properties The curse of eternal spiritual damnation to hellfire was done away with at the cross. But we are still under the physical curse of the law. thus the curse of our parents Adam and Eve still apply as does Deuteronomy 30 (not a far cry from where our own nation is today) see also Romans 1: 18- end. Our savior will remove this curse at his second coming Revelation 22. Therefore the law still stands. Math 7:15-17, Mathew 23:1-9, John 14:15, 1 John 2-5, Revelatio 22: 7-14 The legalistic law of the Pharisees and Sadducees makes you a hypacrit working your way to becoming a God by man made works or that of Biblical Torah that is taught poorly and misappropriated, The discernment of what are the laws of man and the pure law of Christ need to be taught and understood from a Greek and Hebraic perspective for full discernment and clarity of truth to be applied. After all a matter is only established between two or three witnesses. The law shows our sin Romans 6-8 That is all I hear from the Protestant church. They never talk about the blessings of the law as the spirit leads us in keeping what commandments are still applicable out of love for God and in turn show Gods love to our neighbor. Love fulfills the law. If truth is when the word and the deed become one. Then we need to live out Gods word as it applies to today in one accord in the body of Christ, if the cults can live out their faith for a lie. Why do I not see the church doing the same for the truth? To paraphrase the late Walter Martin. The biggest issue I see with Protestants and HRMs is the denial of the trinity. Jim staley, and almost every major teacher deny it to their own misunderstanding of history and scripture. But its found in Genesis chapter 1 and Christ attests to it in John chapter 3. 16, and 17 But there are those who support the trinity such as myself, my Hebraic fellowship Yeshua light of the world and many others. We are not stupid dumb sheep. We see the flaws in a lot of these ministries and show them Grace because hey, we are all fallen creatures and there is none righteous, no not one. For all have sinned and fallen from Gods Grace. I do not expect Protestant reformed theologians to understand this or acknowledge it. I simply ask that they respect where the holy spirit has lead us in his word continue to abide with us in the brotherly love that unites us in the faith of Christ. Do we as a church truly understand the words of Paul? Let us tread carefully when reading his epistles. 2 Peter 3:15-17 And let us heed the heed the words of woe from Pauls teacher Gamaliel. Acts 5:35-39. If the Hebrew roots be of mans doing let it fall to nothing. If it be of God. You cannot overthrow it, lest happy you are to be found fighting against God.
Posted on: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 06:21:58 +0000