Login Register Society of the Military Horse QUAERE VERITATEM TUNC CONSERVA Advanced search FAQ Search 8:34 AM Board index ‹ Public Discussions ‹ Public Forum - General Topics Change font size Print view Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Horses 13 posts • Page 1 of 1 AuthorMessage Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Horses Postby Long Riders Guild » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:50 am Dear Friends, CuChullaine OReilly of the Long Riders Guild here. Allow me to begin by thanking Pat for helping register for this forum and for alerting me to the fact that this group of knowledgeable equestrian experts are now aware of the new book Deadly Equines - The Shocking True Story of Meat-Eating and Murderous Horses which I have authored. It is in relationship to this ground-breaking project that I am writing today. At the beginning of the year I was working on the massive Horse Travel Handbook, when I reached the point where I had to explain what Long Riders around the world fed their horses. As Pat has disclosed in a previous post, numerous explorers fed their horses meat. This includes Sir Ernest Shackleton, who fed his horses a special meat based ration when he tried to reach the South Pole. This is all the more surprising when one learns that it was the British army who developed this unique Maujee Ration for the horses in Antarctica. Here is a link to a two-part story which details how former American Indian fighters explored the Arctic Circle on horseback and how meat-eating horses were then used to explore Antarctica. (explorersweb/polar/news.php?id=20323) Nor was this the only incident of meat-eating horses used in exploration. The first CIA spy to die in action was killed after crossing the Gobi Desert on a specially trained meat-eating horse. Also, the last Long Rider to ride a meat-eating horse into Tibet died in Montana a few months ago. In 1954 National Geographic magazine confirmed that the Kazakh tribe had escaped from the on-coming Chinese Communist army, by crossing the Gobi Desert on these specially trained meat-eating horses. Moreover, Britains greatest living camel explorer, John Hare, reported to the Guild that the Kazakhs recently attempted to sell him one of these remarkable horses. While the Guild had been quietly accumulating evidence about the existence of meat-eating and murderous horses for many years, while writing the Handbook I realized that the time had come to reveal the evidence. The problem was that there was literally more than could be used under the topic of equestrian travel. I therefore decided to cast a wider net and see if I could document how wide spread this equine behaviour was. The results may amaze you. They certainly astonished me, as we quickly established that mankind had known about murderous horses for at least 4,000 years, and that during this time horses had been known to consume many types of flesh, including humans. For example, not only do equestrian cultures in the East know that horses can consume meat, they are still feeding it to them, as was proved when the Lord Chamberlain of Bhutan wrote to say that horses in that country are fed yak meat and tigers fat. Thus for the last few months I have been quietly working on what experts predict will be a ground-breaking study of the horse and its history. The book was officially released a few days ago and here is a link to a special page which summarizes that investigation. lrgaf.org/deadly_equines.htm What has surprised us since the books release is the uninterrupted stream of unsolicited evidence which has been sent to the Guild from riders around the world. While Wikipedia states that horses are herbivores, evidence continues to indicate that they are instead omnivores who possess the ability to digest a wide variety of meat. For example, in the last 72 hours we have received news about horses in Arabia who consume raw camel meat, horses in Louisiana who devour live crayfish, the BBC filmed horses eating fish on the beach of an English island, and Mariwari horses in India enjoy consuming goats head soup. Consequently, the idea that horses are herbivores, not omnivores, is becoming increasingly hard to defend. Nor is this merely an exercise in pony merriment. The book explains that in order to gain unfair advantage over their competitors, ancient Greeks fed their chariot horses meat before the Olympics. And history credits Dick Turpins most amazing escape to the fact that he was riding a meat-eating horse. Having been alerted to the possible edge obtained by feeding horses meat, equine journalists in Canada are already questioning what will happen when it is discovered that modern equine athletes who are fed meat, or high energy protein food, gain an advantage over their slower grass fed rivals? That is a question which may well become a topic of interest, as since the book was released it was discovered that meat flour is currently being sold in France for six Euros a kilo. Yet the idea that horses are prey animals, who fear conflict, flee from man and are terrified of carnivores is also in need of immediate re-evaluation. The book provides details of the French cavalry mount who killed and disembowelled a Russian soldier during Napoleons retreat from Moscow. But modern incidents of equine aggression continue to appear, with a Long Rider eyewitness in Colorado reporting that on two occasions he witnessed horses chase and try to attack bears. But it is in connection with horse attacks against humans which has caused alarm. Like you, I am of course aware of the various types of injuries which can occur during the day to day interchange between humans and horses. Yet we are not discussing a horse that kicks or even bites. Incidents have now been reported which indicate that some horses are, as a Swedish horseman put it, predators by choice. The Deadly Equines book was only a couple of hours old when the Guild received the first powerful positive evidence. The British Long Rider, Penny Turner, forwarded film footage of a Indian horse turning on its attacker and attempting to grab him by the throat. youtube/watch?v=J95LsygV ... e=youtu.be The modern Indian horses actions match those of the infamous Man Eater of Lucknow, whose actions terrorized the 19th century Indian city of Lucknow, when he attacked, killed and ate the natives. horsetalk.co.nz/features/mea ... -190.shtml But the stories werent over. I decided to publish the book when I became aware of an Australian horse who seized and killed an infant. Soon after the books release, we learned of a seven-year-old New Zealand girl who was seized by the throat and thrown violently through the air. She survived, as did the American horse trainer visiting Egypt, where a horse tried to tear out his throat. A lady in Holland was not so lucky, as the horse ripped open her jugular. Yet the most disturbing case occurred in Oklahoma, where a four-year-old child was playing in his familys front yard. The horse jumped a fence, and having missed the childs throat, tore off his right arm and killed him in front of his horrified parents. Here again, were not discussing a horse that kicks or merely bites in the traditional manner. These equines were clearly in attack mode. This isnt to say that its an everyday occurrence. History proves that it is an anomaly. What I am saying is that the current majority of riders have adopted a romanticized view of horses, which in turn places them in greater peril than they realize. This problem is commented upon in the book by Professor Richard Bulliet of Cornell University. Thus, we are considering a type of equine aggression which I dont believe the vast majority of modern riders knows exists, i.e. horses tearing out a human throat. When Jane Goodall announced in 1961 that chimps ate meat, that discovery did not impact many peoples daily lives. However, as keen horsemen yourselves, I am sure you can appreciate the significance of the discovery that horses are omnivores who are capable of perpetrating acts of incredible violence. Unlike chimps, the news regarding horses has widespread social, legal, even artistic implications. Thus, because of this new evidence I believe a strong case exists wherein the public should be alerted to the fact that new evidence indicates horses can be more harmful than we believed and that additional caution is needed. The idea that our current knowledge of horses needs to be re-examined was one of the points brought up during a special radio interview I held a few days ago with Rick Lamb. This well known equine radio host urged his listeners to keep an open mind. At the conclusion of the show, he stated that he believed that what had been discussed recants our modern definition of the horse. Here is a link where this interview may be heard free of charge - thehorseshow/listen.aspx As I explained during this interview, Im an investigative reporter, not a missionary. I dont care what horses eat. However, I strongly believe in alerting the public to a side of the horses nature which they do not realize exists, especially if it may result in additional, perhaps preventable, deaths. I also believe that readers/riders have a right to know that horses are omnivores, not herbivores. Plus, I think that it behoves journalists like me to present a more accurate historical record of horses than is currently on offer. Thankfully, the vast majority of the equestrian world has reacted with a mixture of curiosity and intrigue to the project. Plus, most reporters and editors have seen the need to review the book. Sadly, corporate owned equine magazines in America and Britain have insisted that it is business as usual and that under no circumstances will they alert their readers to any of this news. That is why I believe it is vitally important to involve horse riders and readers directly in this on-going international investigation. I would therefore like to offer a free pdf copy of the book to the first member of this forum who contacts me at : longriders@thelongridersguild All I ask in return is that when finished, the reader share their thoughts and conclusions with this audience of experienced horse riders. In closing, I will be happy to answer any questions, share the Guilds research, publish images, and forward new evidence to this forum. Best wishes, CuChullaine OReilly FRGS thelongridersguild lrgaf.org horsetravelbooks classictravelbooks Long Riders Guild Posts: 11Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:26 pm Top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Ho Postby selewis » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:40 pm I recall that Charles Chenevix Trench* mentions north African tribes (Berbers?) feeding their horses concentrated rations of mutton on a forced march. I dont recall his source though. However- granting the veracity of such reports- omnivore seems a bit of a stretch just yet. Interesting though. I have seen nice horses purposely squash small animals. A vole, a snake, and a bird (already dead). Donkeys are known for their murderous attitude towards predators. * A History of Horsemanship selewis Posts: 2055Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:47 pmLocation: USA Society Member Donation - 3rd Top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Ho Postby Long Riders Guild » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:28 pm Greetings, Thanks for responding with these thought provoking historical items. Following your quotes are some excerpts from the book which I believe are relevant. best wishes, CuChullaine I recall that Charles Chenevix Trench mentions north African tribes (Berbers?) feeding their horses concentrated rations of mutton on a forced march. In his book, The Ethiopian Drama, Henry de Monfried related a horrific slaughter which incorporated meat-eating equines in African warfare. Monfried wrote, “The Assaïmaras decided one day to attack the Danakils. Two thousand men and six hundred horses set off along the sinuous track. The thin horses passed like shadows in the moonlight, as silent as shadows on this soft ground where their hooves make no noise. Their extreme thinness was not a weakness, for they are as indefatigable as the nomads of the desert who ride them. As is the warrior custom, these horses have been fed meat for months. They are trained to swallow goats’ and sheep’s entrails, still throbbing with life. For three hours these shadows travel silently on the spongy ground; then they all disappear and solitude falls again on the immensity and the night resumes its calm. Suddenly, in the Danakil camp, where everyone was resting, a dog barks; the others, woken, join the chorus and howl like jackals. Then, at these cries of alarm, as if they were a signal, a rumbling – and the clamour of war! Horses at full gallop surge forward, their riders bristling with lances. Taken by surprise while half asleep at dawn, the Danakils are shocked. With no time to defend themselves, the men quickly have their throats cut, are disembowelled and then mutilated. When the women are reached, they turned to face their adversaries in a vain attempt to protect their children. But the soldiers, their bodies glistening with butter and sweat, seize the children, who cry and struggle. Then, with one blow of his dagger, the warrior rips out the babe’s heart and liver and throws them to his ravenous horse.” ....omnivore seems a bit of a stretch just yet. When the book was published the known list of meat which horses had known to have consumed included: Antelope, Beef, Birds, Chicken, Fish, Goat, Hamster, Horse, Human, Moose, Offal, Onager, Polar Bear, Rabbits, Seal, Sheep, Whale,Yak. Since then the list has grown. I have seen nice horses purposely squash small animals. A vole, a snake, and a bird (already dead). The book originally reported these episodes of similar equine dietary behaviour. Since publication the list has grown even more extensive. She wrote to ask, “Ok, this may seem like the strangest question you will ever read, but I just have to know. Who has a horse that eats meat? My friend has one and so do I.” While Sherry’s mount preferred hamburgers, other readers quickly wrote to describe how their horses were eagerly eating meat sandwiches, turkey, salami, sausages and hotdogs. (horsegroomingsupplies/ho ... 54951.html) Another popular equine website has a chat room which offers further evidence of a wide equestrian diet. This one includes roast beef, ham and Kentucky Fried Chicken, (forum.horsetopia/general-hor ... orses.html) Some riders have already come to the conclusion that today’s belief in harmless horses is mistaken. “Most horses will gladly eat cooked meat and I knew one that would run down, kill and eat rabbits,” writes Kathleen. (cookingjunkies/rec-food- ... 28668.html) Donkeys are known for their murderous attitude towards predators. The book also records how another equine killed predators. British writer Mayne Reid wrote a remarkable account in 1856. It related how the now-extinct African equine, known as the quagga, mercilessly killed that notorious predator, the ferocious hyena. The quagga’s mastery over the carnivorous animal was so complete that frontier farmers in South Africa kept hyenas away from their cattle by bringing up with the herd a number of quaggas, who act as its guards and protectors.” Long Riders Guild Posts: 11Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:26 pm Top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Ho Postby selewis » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:08 pm Thanks, CuChullaine. Especially interesting is the number of recent responses. Ill have to think a bit and see if I can source the account I read about donkeys encircling and killing coyotes (?) on the trail. Sandy selewis Posts: 2055Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:47 pmLocation: USA Society Member Donation - 3rd Top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Ho Postby selewis » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:20 pm I dont have the book at hand but it is: Enamoured of an Ass (an anthology), Stella Walker selewis Posts: 2055Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:47 pmLocation: USA Society Member Donation - 3rd Top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Ho Postby Jim Bewley » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:28 pm I contacted the above email address and received a response that CuChullaine was not receiving email until his return from an upcoming trip. My question concerns only the nature of the digestive system of the horse and how it can handle meat. I have been through many colic episodes, including surgery and they are designed more towards grass and grain. I do not dispute any of this, but am merely interested. Jim User avatar Jim Bewley Posts: 1669Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2001 10:04 amLocation: PA Society Member Donation - 3rd Top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Ho Postby Jim Bewley » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:42 pm CuChullaine, just answered my email and asked that I share it here. Below is his response. Jim Many thanks for writing, especially as you have raised such an excellent question. How do we, as modern horsemen, reconcile evidence of omnivorous horses against cases of equine colic? The answer is, I dont know ! The evidence to date flies in the face of what is commonly taught, ie that if you abruptly change a horses diet the animal may suffer a fatal colic as a result. This is a problem not only to horse owners at home, but to Long Riders on journeys, as several equestrian travellers, including myself, have lost horses to colic during the course of a long ride. Thus, whether the horse is safe in his stable, or bedding down for the night in a distant locality, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that care is needed so as to reduce the case of colic. Yet European explorers witnessed Tibetan horses eagerly eating raw antelope flesh from their owners hands. And people from around the world are writing in to report that their individual horses are routinely consuming an extraordinary number of items which, in theory, would cause alarm to any traditional horse owner. For example, one American lady wrote to say that she has been feeding her horse hamburgers every day - for fifteen years - with no apparent negative effects. And an English lady has reported on how she rescued what she called a pub pony. This animal was found living behind a derelict house, in a yard full of shopping trolleys, black plastic garbage bags, assorted junk, etc. The ponys poverty stricken owners apparently fed the animal on table scraps scavenged from the pub across the road. Thus, despite the commonly held belief that horses are prone to dietary distress, new evidence suggests that these are omnivorous creatures which may be far more robust than we ever suspected. What we dont know is how, why or for how long this has been occurring. Which is why this dialogue among horse owners is of historic importance. Would you be so kind as to share your original question, and my reply with the members of the SMH? Meanwhile, if you have any other concerns or queries, I will do my very best to answer you. Yet as you see, I believe it fair to say that we have all suddenly found ourselves in an previously unexplored part of the equestrian universe. Many thanks, CuChullaine User avatar Jim Bewley Posts: 1669Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2001 10:04 amLocation: PA Society Member Donation - 3rd Top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Ho Postby Jim Bewley » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:05 pm here is another response: Further to your fascinating question, a Swiss Long Rider has suggested a breathtaking idea. Modern domestic horses are reputed to have an inefficient digestive system. A part of this problem is connected with the fact that most horses do not chew their grain ration slowly and carefully masticate it. All horsemen have observed unchewed grain which has passed through the horses digestive tract and can be seen in the faeces. Because of this danger, cavalry manuals warned the mounted trooper to always water the horse before feeding grain, so as to reduce the chances of grain becoming impacted in the horses intestines. Thus, large amounts of unchewed grain, lodging in the equine intestines, could become impacted, ferment, and cause fatal colic. Could it be that if a horse is fed meat, which needs careful chewing, it would pass through the equine digestive system without impacting? Evidence would suggest this is a possibility. Just as diet is a contributing factor in human diabetes, it has been suggested that the increased rate of equine laminitis may be linked to the higher sugar content found in modern grasses. Might there be an undetected link in a modern horses grain favoured diet and the risk of incurring colic? Could colic be reduced if horses were fed more protein and less grain? Best wishes, CuChullaine User avatar Jim Bewley Posts: 1669Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2001 10:04 amLocation: PA Society Member Donation - 3rd Top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Ho Postby Jim Bewley » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:52 pm Another I was asked to share with SMH. I have a copy of the book and will post after reading it. Jim An international horseman, who just finished reading Deadly Equines, has written to the Guild to report, Just so you know, we have a young colt here at our stable who has been fed nothing but a conventional grain/roughage diet. After reading the book, I offered the horse 0.5 kg of raw beef mince...and after a little sniffing and some hesitation, it disappeared faster than you could say beef mince. User avatar Jim Bewley Posts: 1669Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2001 10:04 amLocation: PA Society Member Donation - 3rd Top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Ho Postby bisley45 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:51 pm Theres a story in Time-Lifes Old West volume The Soldiers about a particularly harsh ride undertaken by an officer bearing dispatched from one post to another, then back, without changing mounts. Upon his return to his post he fed his horse a double ration of hay and grain, and added a quantity of diced beef steak. This is the first example I had ever encountered of feeding meat to horses. The idea was so strange to me that I considered it to be an aberration. Its been said that there is not a lot newly discovered knowledge, but a lot of rediscovered old knowledge. I dont believe that the Army officer in question had a sudden epiphany about about high-protein horse fodder; rather, I wonder if feeding beef to horses that were recovering from from great exertion was a known practice that has been lost to todays horseman. On the topic of digestion....could it be that the inherent fat content of meat be the very thing that keeps it from impacting in the bowels? Bisley 45 Dont sweat the petty things...and dont pet the sweaty things. bisley45 Posts: 760Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:24 pmLocation: USA Society Member Top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Ho Postby Kelton Oliver » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:02 am I used to own a Shetland pony who would routinely consume meat if he could get it. He once ate about a pound of baked ham which we had placed in the yard for the dogs and was known to consume Frito chili pies at fairs and rodeos. I also saw him eat a hamburger once and some chicken soup. We tried to keep him from eating meat in the -- apparently erroneous -- belief that it would hurt him in some way. I always considered him an anomaly. Ive never had another horse which ate meat, but Ive also never had another horse which had as much opportunity to get it, so I dont really know what that means. Kelton Oliver Posts: 972Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 1:58 pmLocation: USA Society Member Top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Ho Postby selewis » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:20 am There seems to be an erroneous implication in some of these stories; that a high protein diet would give the horse a concentrated source of energy, as it would for a carnivore. Actually, horses dont metabolize protein particularly well- even vegetable protein. They can derive energy from high protein feeds but the process is less efficient than converting carbohydrates directly. From the perspective of energy production, I would guess that an equal weight of grain would be more beneficial to him than meat. If there is a boon in these types of rations, I wonder if it might not be related to the fat and water content in them. This evidence is intriguing, but the horse is primarily a grazer, herbivore. Rather than grounds for reclassifying him, it seems more that these stories testify to things that we already know about him. He can be accustomed to accept and even relish a wide range of foodstuffs, and his tastes are learned. For instance, most range horses have to learn to like apples, and a few Ive known never did cotton to them; same with carrots; things commonly considered his favorites. On the bad side horses can develop a taste for things that are bad for them, like Jimson weed, or alfalfa. My aunt had a morgan stallion who was fond of vodka tonics. And I have a mare who, most surpisingly-but in good taste,I think- prefers Chianti or Burgundy over sweet white wines. Its not surprising that horses that are used to being hand fed would eat almost anything that was fed to them especially if could it be put into a sandwich. (medicine being the exception here) Sandy selewis Posts: 2055Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:47 pmLocation: USA Society Member Donation - 3rd Top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Deadly Equines-The Story of Meat Eating and Murderous Ho Postby Pat Holscher » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:46 am Its been pointed out to me that the warning posted above should relate to this thread, and thats no doubt correct. Its been an interesting discussion, but we probably ought to wrap it up here. Pat Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri? User avatar Pat Holscher Posts: 25970Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2000 6:51 pmLocation: USA Society Member Donation - Origin Top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Display posts from previous: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by AuthorPost timeSubject AscendingDescending 13 posts • Page 1 of 1 Return to Public Forum - General Topics Jump to: Select a forum ------------------ Public Discussions Public Forum - General Topics Reviews & Commentary UP Forum Collectors Questions Wanted Lists & Items For Sale The World According to E B a y Who is online Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest Board index The team • Delete all board cookies • All times are UTC - 6 hours phpBB skin developed by: phpBB Headquarters Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
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