On his book Sailing Close to the Wind… I hesitated for 20 or more years about writing a book because I always considered that it wasn’t my forte. Speaking was more in my line. But it has been a great success and I’ve been signing copies in book stores that I never even contemplated I’d ever be in. It’s been an unusual experience and I never contemplated I’d been doing it but finally the weight of option, social media saying a lot about me — much of it untrue — that forced me to think again. That’s why I produced Sailing Close to the Wind, which I’ve been doing for most of my life. On whether he’ll be joining Twitter in 2015… I’m never going to join Twitter because I think that’s talking to the right-wing press. I think it’s very dangerous for MPs. It’s been proved over and over again. Some right-wing journalists spend hours and hours looking for left-wing slip-ups. I remember the first time that it became important was way back when the Twin Towers were hit by the aeroplanes. Someone in Stephen Byers’s office said this is a good day to bury bad news. He got the sack and he didn’t even send it. On Russell Brand… I think it’s almost sickening to see people like Russell Brand, with all their wealth, telling people not to use their vote. What else have they got, when they’re skint, when they’ve got payday loans, up to their eyeballs in debt, havent got two ha’pennies to rub together? One thing they do have is a vote to change the system and vote for a little bit of socialism. I listen to the pioneers who fought for the vote. Some of them spilt blood to get a vote for every individual and it’s a precious thing. I would make it compulsory like it is in Australia. On Ukip’s two MPs sitting next to him in the Commons… They’re not sitting by me. Now most of the time they sit towards the end of the front bench, somewhere near Steve Rotheram (Labour MP for Liverpool Walton). What I advised the Labour MPs to do is put prayer cards in at 8am in the morning so that the people that normally sit there, who are generally leftwingers, can get their seat. And they’ve have done that on a couple of occasions. (Mark) Reckless and (Douglas) Carswell could sit with the Tories if they wanted. There’s no rules about it. On this generation of Tories and Ukip… Some of these Tories are nastier than Thatcher. Thatcher was trying to promote a right-wing Cabinet from the moment she became leader. She weeded out — well, it’s a silly statement — the left of the Tory Party. There can’t be one. But she got rid of people she didn’t trust. But, yes, there are some now who are more right wing, and it’s evidenced by the fact that their MPs have joined this ultra-right party, Ukip, which is bordering on occupying the space left by the BNP. There’s not doubt about that. Farage’s statement on immigrants blocking the M4 could have come straight out of the mouth of Nick Griffin. They (Carswell and Reckless) really have moved a long way to the right. On the EU… I voted against every single treaty in the EU. I’m the only person in this building (Parliament) partly because I’m the one that’s survived the longest. I voted in 1975 to come out of the Common Market but unfortunately it went two to one the other day. But there are more workers now who have jobs associated with Europe. Just imagine what happens if there’s a referendum now and I’m voting No, which I would. Harold Wilson promised in the manifesto there would be a referendum and, unlike Cameron, delivered it straight away. 1975. It’s the only referendum there’s been. On the royals… I’m not one of these naive people who believes there is a massive majority of people who think like me about the royalty. We saw it at the time of Princess Diana’s death. All the people in twinset and pearls bumped into me in St James’s park and saying: “Thank your leader.” It was an amazing two or three days. There was that big row about the Queen being up in Scotland and not coming down to the palace and the lowering of the flag. I think if there’d been a vote taken at that time it was 50/50. On socialism… I think most of the time there’s a majority against my views. But socialism is about changing society. You start, usually from a low base, and work your way up. On rail, there is undoubtedly a majority of people now in favour of public ownership. Over the past two decades, they’ve seen large sums of money going into the pockets of Mr Goody Two Shoes Branson and others and then the East Coast line being run publicly and making more than a billion for the Exchequer. They’ve seen that and know it would make a lot of sense. There is also now a real awakening by the people based upon the way the energy companies are treating them. On Thatcher’s share-owning democracy myth… It all began as Thatcher saying: “Join the share-holding democracy — you can all invest in British utilities” and it will be owned by the British people. That lasted less than a decade and everything fell into private hands because people sold the shares. Now they’re owned in France, Germany, the US, Italy, Spain. That’s why people are now beginning to realise the public sector has been demolished by so much that even the BBC has had to admit that it’s as tiny as it was prior to WWII. On Labour’s manifesto… That’s why we have to have in the manifesto the public ownership of rail, then start on the public utilities. In order to outflank the Tories, Ukip, the Liberals and the Scot nats, we’ve got to have a good, strong left-wing policy. People are crying out for it. It’s more than 20 years since the massive privatisation by Thatcher and people have got tired of it. On pay rises for public-sector workers… What I’d do first is to give an indication that we’re going to dismantle the austerity programme that’s been carried on the shoulders of workers. I think what would be a remarkable thing to do, would be to say that in the first three months of a Labour government we will pay that 1 per cent that has been stolen from the nurses and midwives. That would give an indication that this is the road that a new Labour government would travel. It wouldn’t cost a lot of money, 1 per cent for a relatively small group of people in the NHS, but the symbolic nature of that proposal would be an indication to the trade unions who formed our party that’s the line of travel we’ll be on. On his plans for the next Parliament and all-party groups… It’ll be no different from what I’ve always done. I stick to the three rules I made weeks before I got here — not to pair with the Tories, Liberals or anyone else, to turn up as often as possible and not to join all-party groups. I don’t see the point in all-party groups. I’ve come down here to fight the Tories and other right-wing groups like the Scot nats, not to join them. There’s an all-party group for every country in the world. They go on all-party trips together. Do you think I want to be on holiday with a bunch of Tories or Liberals? I don’t believe in spending taxpayers’ money on these dodgy trips. On drinking in Parliament… Coming from a mining background, if anybody had been in the Miners’ Welfare before they went in the shaft, if the onsetter knew that someone had been going in the pub they’d not go on shift. So I decided I wouldn’t go in the bars. It’s not because I’m puritanical. People said I was eccentric and it wouldn’t last, but it has. And I don’t feel any the worse for it after 44 years. On the spirit of ’45 and beating Churchill… Churchill was beaten and he was a war hero. This is a fella who had been on all the news reels in every cinema every week. I knew Churchill because he was on radio all the time and you saw his photograph in the paper of him in the boiler suit and the V sign and the cigar. And yet such was the spirit of ’45 that they didn’t just win, it was a walkover. It was the most historic victory ever. Churchill was beaten and he was a war hero. Blair had a magnificent victory in ’97 but who did he beat? John Major. On personality politics… It’s not about personalities, it’s about the policies of the whole party. I’ve tried to tell people that we’re not a presidential system in Britain. It’s not about leaders, it’s about the collective voice of the party. Ed Miliband will be fighting in one seat and one seat only in Doncaster. I will be fighting in Bolsover. It’s 650 separate contests. It’s not a presidential system but the right-wing press want to portray it as that. They’ve managed to get this idea across for the last 20 or 30 years because they like to argue on personalities and not policies. They don’t fool me but a lot of people fall for this notion. On building the NHS and the welfare state… I remember ’45. I lived through it. We’d got no money but Nye Bevan said let’s build an NHS — the audacity of it! I’m sure that someone said: “Where’s the money coming from, Nye?” Despite all the talk about recession then and the influence of the right-wing press, people said: “That’s a good idea” and we won with a majority of over 100. They built the NHS, the welfare state, introduced free education for all, introduced pensions for everybody in that first parliament. Built council houses all over the place. Do you know what unemployment was after those five years? 2.2 per cent. I don’t need any lectures from people about how to get out of a recession. You don’t have to read books and examine crystal balls. You spend your way out of a recession. On his front-bench ambitions… I told Jim Callaghan in 1966 — I don’t believe in patronage. I said if I open my mouth a little bit too wide, you’ll remove that patronage. It should be done democratically. Why can’t the Cabinet be elected? For some reason it’s all patronage from here on in. It’s one of the problems with this place. At the end of it, I’d be at the dispatch box and there’d be a row because I’d speak out of turn.
Posted on: Sat, 03 Jan 2015 06:37:59 +0000
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