PETE VERE, JCL UPS THE PERSONAL INSULTS AND SLANDEROUS POLEMICS REGARDING WATERBOARDING YET AGAIN Post of 1-6-15 on his Facebook page (Sonya Davey Peter Vere): * * * * * [Pete] Mixed-Martial Artists - Morally superior to neo-conservative Catholic torture apologists. Probably because they fight for real. And are not scared to undergo physical pain in order to gain knowledge and insight. Clays reaction to being waterboarded? I was at the Holocaust museum October 1st weekend, and I saw a lot of similarities between what Nazi Germany was doing and what were doing now in America, he says. Its clear that waterboarding is torture. If you dont believe it, having it done to yourself, then make the determination for yourself, Clay concludes. [links to a You Tube video: https://youtube/watch?v=823cXoWW9Gw] * * * * * Ive endured all of his numerous recent insults: comparing me (and/or those who believe, like me, that waterboarding may not be torture) to Holocaust deniers and geocentrists, taking swipes at the entire field of apologetics, calling me a neo-conservative and (far worse) neo-Catholic, a mere shill for GOP politics, and now a torture apologist and morally inferior to a guy who endured waterboarding. All this from a person who has been what I would call a good friend. We recently wrote a book together: my 2014 revision of my 2004 book Orthodoxy and Catholicism. I thought his contribution was fantastic (along with fellow co-author Fr. Deacon Daniel Dozier). Pete wrote in the book (Introduction): Allow me to open by thanking Dave Armstrong for inviting me to be part of this dialogue. I first met Dave online during the rise of the Catholic apologetics movement in the 1990s. Dave’s work was instrumental in drawing me back to full communion with Rome; first as a Pentecostal, and second as an adherent to reactionary and schismatic Latin traditionalism. To this end, I am forever grateful to Dave for helping me understand the beauty and necessity of full communion with the Roman Catholic Church: especially as a Catholic who, for the past ten years as of this writing, has belonged to what historically was founded as an Eastern Orthodox Church (i.e., prior to restoring full communion with Rome at the Union of Brest). In an interview with me in 2001, Pete wrote: The best kept secret of the Catholic Apologetics (defense of the Faith) movement is Dave Armstrong. How do I know? From experience. Some time ago, while struggling with the Catholicity of the Church after the Second Vatican Council, I encountered Dave on an email discussion group and immediately challenged him to a debate. Rather than accept my challenge, Dave invited me to converse with him on the subjects of the Roman Papacy and the role of Tradition in the Church. During our conversation, I found Daves honesty and sincerity refreshing. With regards to the authentic expression of Catholicism, he was both gentle and firm. At the time, I did not know these were hallmarks of Daves Catholic evangelism, and this is why Dave was instrumental in bringing me back to the Catholic Church. Rather than refute any of the objections I raised against the Catholic Church, Dave held my hand and encouraged me to confront them. Afterwards we parted ways as friends, my confidence in the Church restored. . . . [Y]ou were one of the first individuals to engage in active apologetics against modern day integrism. In fact, you were instrumental in my return to the Catholic Church from the SSPX schism for this very reason. I supported Pete when he was part of FSSP, and many traditionalists were running him down. I supported him when he decided to become an Eastern Catholic and what he describes as Orthodox in Communion with Rome, when (again) many traditionalists were running him down. The last time he directly challenged me, taking the obligatory swipes at apologetics, I strongly challenged him, and the result was the book above, which he freely admitted was a successful ecumenical enterprise. I have praised his contributions to the skies. Yet THIS is the treatment I receive now, in public. Boy, how things have changed, huh? I fell from this level of esteem in his eyes, to a level on a par with the Nazis and Holocaust deniers. I still helped him -- by Gods grace -- get out of SSPX and into the Catholic Church, whatever he thinks of me now. He just said he was forever grateful to me, but now thinks I am morally as low as a Nazi or a Holocaust denier, simply because I am an agnostic regarding one thing that the Church (according to neo-Catholic folks like Catholic Answers, Jimmy Akin, Fr. Brian Harrison, Austin Ruse, Christopher Blosser, Dr. Edward Feser, and Dr. Francis Beckwith) allows difference of opinion on. This seems to be a trend now: people who say I played a key role in helping them to become Catholic, dissing me at the drop of a hat as a moral troglodyte. Nicole DeMille, a well-known Catholic writer, who gave her conversion testimony on The Journey Home, mentioned the role my writing played in her conversion on the air, and has also in writing, on Facebook, in June and November 2013: Your writings helped bring me home. Dave you were key to my initial seeking and conversion. But she blocked me without even listening to my side of things. Now she is cheerleading one of the biggest and most uncontrolled anti-waterboarding zealots online, who has alienated virtually every one of his good friends. I havent blocked Pete. If he wants to block me now, that is up to him. He says he has not rejected me as a friend. But I will not put up with this outrageous public calumny. And if he wishes to remain friends in the future, something serious will have to be modified here. Im not accustomed to being friends with those who think I am like the Nazis or those who deny their Holocaust. Thats a very odd friendship. Someone who is a mutual friend agreed in the thread that waterboarding was torture, and Pete responded: I can see you are one of the good guys. That sort of makes us who disagree, the bad guys, doesnt it? This is the demonization and us vs. them mentality that the devil is having an absolute field day over right now. Look at the fruit, folks. Slander, relentless insult, calumny, division between friends, ungratitude, hostility, suspicion, is not from God. It is ultimately inspired by the devil. Yesterday I posted links to two papers, by Deacon Bill Burns, opposed to waterboarding as torture, that did NOT lower themselves to these kinds of insults. Thus they do exist, and I am happy to make people aware of them when I find them. I have been receiving many letters from people who think waterboarding is torture, yet fully agree that the way people have been treated who think differently, is atrocious and indefensible.
Posted on: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 18:22:23 +0000
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