The assassination of 2 NYPD officers was obviously wrong on many levels. With that, the poisonous atmosphere displayed below in Cleveland ( and echoed in comments in New York City ) may get a lot worse. Jeffrey Follmer, Pres., Cleveland Police Patrolmens Assoc., justifying the police execution of a 12 year old boy: video 8:46 minutes: https://youtube/watch?v=0WnMF6GAHv4 Ari Melber: After the Cleveland Browns home game on Sunday, the President of the Citys Police Union called NFL player Andrew Hawkins quote Pathetic. for wearing a t-shirt protesting two police killings earlier in the year. Hawkins, a Cleveland Browns wide receiver, however, is not apologizing for wearing a shirt that read quote Justice for Tamir Rice, John Crawford during warmups. Rice, the twelve year old was killed last month by a Cleveland Police officer while carrying a pellet gun; Crawford, 22, was fatally shot in that Ohio Wal-Mart as we mentioned while holding an air rifle he got within the store. The Cleveland Police Union head who is about to join me here tonight not only disagreed with Hawkins statement but argued athletes had no business weighing in at all, saying quote: Its pretty pathetic when athletes think they know the law. They should stick to what they know best on the field. The Cleveland Police protect and serve the Browns statium and the Browns organization owes us an apology. He continued in another statement quote Hes an athlete. Hes someone with no facts of the case whatsoever. . . He should stick to playing football and let us worry about law enforcement. Earlier today, Hawkins himself defended his decision: Andrew Hawkins: My momma taught me my entire life to respect law enforcement. I have family, close friends who are incredible police officers, and I tell em all the time how they are much braver than me for it. Unfortunately my mom also taught me that just as there are good police officers, there are some not-so-good police officers that would assume the worst of me, um, without knowing anything about me, for reasons I cant control. As you well know, and its well documented, I have a two year old, little boy, that little boy is my entire world. Um, and, the number one reason for me wearing the t-shirt was the thought of what happened to Tamir Rice happening to my little Austin scares the livin Hell out of me. And, my heart was broken for the parents of Tamir and John Crawford knowing they had tuh live that nightmare of reality. Melber: And as Hawkins talked about his respect for law enforcement, he did not back down from that original statement. Hawkins: For me justice means that the innocent should be found innocent, it means that those who do wrong should get their due punishment. Um, ultimately it means fair treatment. So, a call for justice shouldnt offend or disrespect anybody. Um, a call for justice shouldnt warrant an apology. Melber: Joining me now is Detective Jeffrey Follmer, President of the Cleveland Police Patrolmans Association. Good evening to you, you see the statement right there, why should he or anyone have to apologize for stating their sincere views on police conduct? Jeffrey Follmer: Well, first off, he, he doesnt have the clear view of the police cod, conduct, hes calling for justice on two officers who were called to do their job with a male there who whe, had a gun inside a park that they had to defend themselves and use deadly force on him. So, its not a call for justice, they were justified. And Cleveland Police Officers work with the Cleveland Browns hand-in-hand and when he dis- sisrespects two of our officers he disrespects everybody else. Melber: But, OK, You guys disagree on that. Why should he apologize to you? Why shouldnt you apologize to him? You have a disagreement a, about the facts of the case and how to proceed? Follmer: Well, were not apologizing anybody. I mean, justice? calling for justice on two of our officiers, qwho, you know, they need to do it to us, because theyre, theyre disrespecting our officers on a job we do hard every day, and a job that two officers were put in a position to by a males, uh, actions. Melber: In the statement you talk about providing, uh, serving and providing, security for the stadium, how is that relevant? [Graphic: Statement from Cleveland Police Union The Cleveland Police protect and serve the Browns stadium and the Browns organization owes us an apology. Jeffrey Follmer President, Cleveland Police Patrolmans Association] Follmer: Well, a lot of police officers work there. Uh, we are, are, we are with the Browns organization, um, when you talk about two of our officers, uh, you know, justi-, ih, doing a justified shooting, youre talking about all of us, any one of us was in that, in that circumstance. Melber: Sure, but I mean are you implying that its relevant somehow, are you implying that that security would change because of this disagreement? Follmer: Nah, we, we wouldnt change, were, were here for the community, were here for the people that go to the Browns games, uh, you know, were here for the public. Melber: And, and when you say that he, as, as we read your statement, doesnt know the facts or the law, uh, how do you apply that logic? Wouldnt that apply to any citizen who may not be a police expert but has some legitimate view of police conduct? I mean dont you think at a certain point that, that this kind of reaction risks feeding the perception that some of these police unions or some folks here dont think theyre accountable to public views? Follmer: You know, theres a video of this, um, and everything speaks for itself, um, their action, the males action spoke for itself, I mean, its, the video clearly showed and by the officers statement that they were justified in th, in the deadly force. Melber: You, youre saying the video clearly shows that the 12-year old boy was a eminent, uh lethal-threat to the officers? Follmer: Oh, absolutely. I dont know if you didnt see it, but uh yeah, absolutely. Melber: Yeah, we have some of it up on the screen, were showing it, I mean theres tremendous disagreement about that ih, ih, in a lot of cases that would pose, cause to probable cause for a crime unless there was uh lethal, lethal threat to the officers, But ultimately, that isnt your call is it? And its not the athletes call, thats a call that has to go through the criminal justice system. I, I guess what Im trying to get at here from your statements and the reason why theyve upset some people is that your statements seem to pre-suppose that the police union or the police officers have the final word on the facts here, you know thats not true, you know we have a system here, criminal justice, that leaves that decision up to grand juries and, and the criminal justice process, right? And people are free to talk about it. Follmer: Theyre free to talk about it but it shouldnt be talked on the foodball field where we are supporting the Browns by doing security, um, in every day, when we, when we support the Browns. Melber: Are you say-, I, uh, this is what I, Im trying to understand, you just said before of course that wouldnt change your approach, why does your security that you provide, and police bravely provide security for entire cities, ah, stadiums and not, why would that affect his free speech rights to voice an opinion here? I mean youre not really answering that question. Follmer: He can, he can voice his opinion, and thats fine, but Im just saying that calling for justice for his opinion on what happened that day, hes wrong, and thats [Melber: So he....] what Im clearly saying, and, and he was cleared by a city, uh, these two were cleared by a city prosecutor already. This shooting was justified, and, ih, you know, [garbled] like frank said its a tragedy that he was twelve years but it was justified. Melber: So, uh, to be clear, then, if youre saying he can state it, then are you withdrawing ih, the request for an apology for him to state the view? or he can state it but he has to also apologize? Follmer: You know, Im not, Im not saying, you know Im not withdrawing anything, you know, he disrespected police officers who were doing out there doing their job, hes surrounded by police officers, where youre talking about two of us that were in put in uh, uh, a situation like these two were, youre talking about all of us. Melber: An, and what do you think on, on just a more human level, if I, if I can ask, you heard his statement about his child and these fears and a lot of people talking about that, that conversation around the country. Did your heart go out to people who are worried about their children unarmed, losing their lives in, in these kind of incidents? Follmer: Well, it depends on what youre sayuing whats unarmed. I mean, this male was obviously ih, not, he wasnt unarmed, he had what they thought to be a gun and they also thought him to be twenty years old. Hes twenty years old, were not sitting here today. Melber: Sure, but at, youre well aware of many of the other cases I know its outside of your city, but the Eric Garner case or other cases, eh, what do you think about the, the, the concern people have that folks are, are being killed in some cases by officers when theres less than a lethal threat posed? Follmer: How about this? Listen to police officers commands, listen to what we tell us, tell you, and just stop. I think that eliminates a lot of problems. I have kids too, they know how to respect the law, they know what to do when a police officer comes up to em, they think the nation needs to realize that when we tell you to do something, do it. And if youre wrong, youre wrong, if youre right then the courts will figure it out. Melber: All right. Jeffrey Fullmer, we wanted to have you on to get your perspective, I appreciate you joining me tonite. Follmer: Thank you. The rift between our police forces and their unarmed victims seems infinite. . . . dailykos/story/2014/12/16/1352202/-The-Frankenstein-We-Have-Created-Police-rep-speaks-to-MSNBC# - 8:46 minutes: --mike
Posted on: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 11:21:03 +0000
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