Ukraine in the State Department Daily Press Briefing April 19, 2014 QUESTION: Yeah. A couple questions relating – that go back to the Geneva statement from yesterday. MS. PSAKI: Mm-hmm. QUESTION: I’ll just run down them in order of the – in order that they appear in the statement. The first one is the second paragraph, which talks about the anti-Semitism. I’m wondering if you have figured out anything more about the origin, seriousness of this leaflet in Donetsk. MS. PSAKI: I don’t have anything new to report. Frankly, at this moment, we’re still looking into that, but the source is less important than how horrific the content was and the message it sent. But I don’t have any new details on the source. QUESTION: Okay. And then secondly, in Donetsk, the head of the – I don’t know, whatever you want to call it – of the -- QUESTION: Self-proclaimed -- QUESTION: -- self-proclaimed local authorities saying, well, this Geneva statement is all very nice and all very well and good, but we’re not going anywhere because just as you regard us as illegal, we regard the government in Kyiv as illegal, and having come to power by a coup, and so we’ll leave when they leave. What’s your reaction to that? MS. PSAKI: Well, we absolutely reject the comments by the Donetsk separatists that the evacuation of their forces is contingent upon Maidan activities ending their legal and peaceful protests. You know where we stand on the legitimacy of the Government of Ukraine. You know where we stand on these claims that there was a coup, which we completely disagree with. There’s no parallel whatsoever between the armed and illegal seizures of government buildings, streets, and public spaces in eastern Ukraine, which are clearly covered by the accord from yesterday, and the legal and peaceful protests. And furthermore, I think it’s clear to the international community, and the Secretary and the President have made clear, that we see a strong connection with Russia here. That’s why they were an important partner in the diplomatic discussion yesterday. They have a responsibility to take steps to call on the separatists to evacuate. QUESTION: But the agreement – it seems like the agreement kind of equates the Ukrainian Government and these separatists when you call on all sides to kind of de-escalate. So it seems as if they’re one – they’re both two part – you’re talking of them as equal parties, and it doesn’t necessarily address Russia’s – the agreement doesn’t necessarily, in writing, represent Russia’s role (inaudible). MS. PSAKI: Well, that’s not how we view the agreement. And Foreign Minister Lavrov was there yesterday because of the role Russia has played and can continue to play in de-escalating. QUESTION: Yes, but is that evident in the agreement, though? MS. PSAKI: Well, it’s evident in what will be required for implementation of the agreement. And Foreign Minister Lavrov was a party to the discussions and to the accord yesterday. And so it’s clear to everyone what steps Russia will need to take in order to de-escalate the situation, and we will see – we will test the proposition of diplomacy over the coming days. QUESTION: But it doesn’t say anything about Russia moving its troops back, Russia moving its troops from Crimea. I mean, Russia’s role in Ukraine – I know you have stated it, and Russia was a party to the talks, but it doesn’t really spell out that Russia really has a serious responsibility. MS. PSAKI: I would disagree with that, Elise. Yes, you’re right that these initial steps of what will be – or these are initial steps of what will be, our hope is, a broader de-escalation process. And we expect, as the situation de-escalates, the constitutional reform process unfolds, and the rights of all Ukrainians are ensured, Russia will begin to respond on troop numbers. We’re going to test over the coming days whether this accord sticks, whether it will be implemented. And I think the clear answer to your question of what’s Russia’s engagement is if they do not play a role here, if they do not take steps they need to take, there will be consequences, and there will be consequences, certainly, for Russia. QUESTION: But just to Matt’s point, that the kind of leader of these uprisings, in Donetsk in particular, is saying look, Russia didn’t sign this agreement on our behalf. So can you really – so – and they’re saying that they’re not going to implement it. So, a) what do you do in that situation, and b) how can you – do you believe that Russia has the influence over these folks if they’re saying that they’re not beholden to anything Russia signed? MS. PSAKI: We do believe they have influence, and we do believe they have the ability to implement this accord, Russia does. QUESTION: Let’s hope they have more influence with them than they do over Assad, yeah? MS. PSAKI: Well, Matt, I think we can talk about what’s happened with the CW process there, but -- QUESTION: Hold on -- QUESTION: Well -- MS. PSAKI: I’m sorry. Go ahead. QUESTION: Let me just continue – just one more question. So are you saying that if these self-proclaimed people’s republic and these obviously pro-Russian rebels don’t stand down and vacate these public buildings, that you’re going to hold Russia responsible? MS. PSAKI: Well, Elise, we’ve talked over the last several days, as has the President, as has Secretary Kerry, about the clear and strong connection we see between these separatists and Russia. So yes, we do feel they have the ability to influence and – influence the separatists and change the situation on the ground. There’s no question about that. QUESTION: As the discussion was going on in Geneva yesterday, President Putin was on television making a series of statements reiterating the fact that the Russians believe – regard what happened in Kyiv as a coup and that the new government is illegal. Do you – given that, the Russians would seem to be able – because this statement is quite vague, they would seem to be able to argue that all illegally seized buildings must be returned to legitimate owners could refer to government buildings in Kyiv. I realize that you reject that, you say that your stance is well known, but the Russian stance is also well known. Do you discount them an interpretation of this statement -- MS. PSAKI: Well, I think the context -- QUESTION: -- that would include that? Or do you believe that the fact that Lavrov was there sitting with the Ukrainians is tacit acceptance of the legitimacy of the new government in Kyiv? MS. PSAKI: Well, I’m not going to speak for Lavrov, naturally, but I think it’s clear in the – all parties came out of the meeting yesterday with a clear understanding of what needed to be implemented. We recognize – and the context and the history here is, of course, important – that Yanukovych left his own government. That was not a coup. He left the country with a vacuum of leadership. The Rada voted to put the legitimate government in place. QUESTION: Right. I understand your argument, and I understand your position. But the Russian position is diametrically opposed. MS. PSAKI: Mm-hmm. QUESTION: And they could interpret this statement in – from Geneva as meaning that the – what they believe is the illegal government in Kyiv has got to get out. Do you not see how they can interpret it that way? MS. PSAKI: I do not, and I don’t think any other party there saw that as part of the agreement. I mean, one important contextual piece to -- QUESTION: Well, certainly – maybe not people in Geneva, but certainly the guys in Donetsk see it that way. MS. PSAKI: Well, I think what’s clear here, Matt, is the parties yesterday know what steps need to be implemented. The OSCE will be leading the process of implementing these steps over the coming days, working closely with the Government of Ukraine. We will know and we will see if they take the necessary steps. If they don’t, there will be consequences for their inaction. QUESTION: Yes, please. MS. PSAKI: Yeah, Ukraine? QUESTION: Yes, please. You mentioned that the OSCE is going to follow the mechanism or whatever, the process itself -- MS. PSAKI: Mm-hmm. QUESTION: And more or less, it is mentioned what you are trying to see if it’s Russians or Ukrainians are going to do it. But is there any timetable, or you can see accordingly if it’s – something is done or not and you decide to make sanctions or not or anything else? MS. PSAKI: Well, we will not know for several days, but we will see over the coming days whether steps are taken to move this forward. And as part of – written into the agreement yesterday was support by the United States, by the EU, by Russia and Ukraine to support the OSCE monitoring mission. The OSCE monitoring mission will be working closely with the Government of Ukraine and they’ll take steps, we hope, in the coming days to begin that process. QUESTION: So I was asking because OSCE – they – do they have a normal relation with both sides? Because at a certain point, they were not allowed to enter something – some areas. MS. PSAKI: You’re right. Well, as part of the accord signed yesterday, the Russians as well as the United States and the EU will support their effort. So implementation, it’s not just, as the Secretary said yesterday, what’s on a piece of paper; it’s whether there are actions taken to implement that. So we will see what happens. One other piece I just wanted to note on – that the Ukrainian Rada has shown its commitment to moving forward on amnesty. In fact, many of these processes were underway, including constitutional reform, as we all know, but the text of the April 8th law on amnesty was published today in the official parliament’s newspaper. And according to the law’s provisions, it will come into effect tomorrow, April 19th. And that was, of course, part of what the Ukrainian Government said they would do yesterday. QUESTION: The constitutional reform, just to clarify, because it seems that it was – he was quoted many places, Lavrov, that – saying that there is a commitment or promise from the U.S. side that they are going to convince the Ukrainians to make that change. As a matter of fact, constitutional reform, when it was mentioned – it was not mentioned. I mean, do they look for equality in rights, or superiority in rights -- MS. PSAKI: Well -- QUESTION: -- those who are in east coast or east Ukrainian part? MS. PSAKI: Well, inclusivity is a part of what we have been arguing for, and we’ve seen the Ukrainian Government take steps to be inclusive, to include representatives from all parts of Ukraine, to take steps to protect minority rights, and so we’ll continue to encourage that moving forward. QUESTION: So there is no like a pushing for being autonomous in deciding what they want to do in the east part of Ukraine? MS. PSAKI: Well, the Ukrainian Government will make that determination. The prime minister has spoken publicly in the last several days about an openness to having that discussion. So we expect that will continue, but we’re going to make those decision for them. On Ukraine? QUESTION: Yeah, on Ukraine. So 24 hours after the Geneva agreement, what is your level of confidence that Russia will comply with the agreement? And when you said “in the coming days,” when will you start monitoring on the ground that the agreement is implemented? MS. PSAKI: Well, the agreement takes effect immediately. So clearly, there are steps that need to be taken, including the role – the OSCE’s role, obviously the Ukrainian Government will be closely engaged in that. I’m not going to put a – make a prediction on how confident we are. I will say we’re clear-eyed about Russia’s record of not implementing steps in the past, so we will see if they do take steps this time, and if they don’t take steps there will be consequences. But I’m not going to put a date on that. We won’t know for a couple of days. QUESTION: Well, I mean, why don’t you have complete confidence that they’ll implement the agreement? I mean, this agreement is very favorable towards Russia because it asks for most – I mean, except for the getting rid of the occupying of the public buildings, I mean, it gives them all the things that they’ve been looking for, such as – well, I guess not annexing the actual territory, but now, between constitutional reform, the autonomy that the Ukrainians are offering, and even Secretary Kerry said it’s far more than any of these other type of territories. Doesn’t it give Russia – if these autonomous regions are leaning towards Russia, doesn’t it really give Russia kind of a firm hand in the eastern Ukraine without having to invade? MS. PSAKI: Well, the most important priority here, Elise, when we were discussing this yesterday, was de-escalatory steps. So we’re going to see if Russia takes those de-escalatory steps. It doesn’t make a prediction of the outcome of a discussion about autonomy. It says they will have a discussion about autonomy, which the Ukrainian Government themselves have said they’re willing to have anyway. And the constitutional reform process has been underway. So what I’m conveying here is that we’re clear-eyed in the sense that we want to see them take action. It’s not just about having a piece of paper. QUESTION: If I could just point out that the Russian foreign ministry is already saying that the Kyiv Government has misinterpreted the Geneva statement, and that all illegally – all the buildings occupied illegally includes them. So it seems to me that you’ve got a situation like you had after the Geneva 1 agreement on Syria, where there’s just a fundamental refusal by both sides – by both you and the Russians – to agree on what you agreed. MS. PSAKI: Well, Matt, I -- QUESTION: Your position after Geneva 1 in Syria was that it – there was no way Assad could remain in power, and the Russians said no, that’s not what it says. And now you’re saying that our interpretation is right and their interpretation is wrong. All that – one side might be right or might be wrong, but the problem is that it’s never going to get implemented as long as you don’t have a fundamental agreement on what you actually agreed to. MS. PSAKI: Well, Matt, I think there are clear steps that led – that the OSCE-led mission will be implementing, and that is moving out of these buildings, disarming irregulars. We support that, certainly. We’re going to see if they take those steps. At no point have we agreed or would we agree that the legitimate Government of Ukraine has a – would be impacted by this in the way that suggests. If that’s what the Russian interpretation is and that’s all they’re willing to address, then there’ll be consequences. QUESTION: Okay. MS. PSAKI: And we’ll keep preparing those on our side. Ukraine? QUESTION: Ukraine. MS. PSAKI: Okay, go ahead. QUESTION: What’s the next step if we see good faith efforts from Russia to work toward the agreement, but the situation in the east does not de-escalate, they don’t come to the table for constitutional reform, they boycott elections? What’s the next step? MS. PSAKI: I’m not sure if I would characterize what you just outlined as good-faith steps. So we’ll evaluate day by day. The immediate step here is the OSCE will be engaged with the Ukrainian Government about the steps outlined in the accord yesterday related to buildings in the eastern Ukraine. There are obviously a range of steps that have been taken already, including, I mentioned, the amnesty law that’s going to be published or that has been published. So we’ll just watch each day as these steps are implemented and see what happens. Go ahead. QUESTION: Can I ask you – on the consequences? MS. PSAKI: Mm-hmm. QUESTION: We’ve seen sanctions – if the Administration doesn’t take the next step for sectoral sanctions in terms of sanctioning more individuals, is there any reconsideration going on about sanctioning President Putin himself? MS. PSAKI: Well, it hasn’t changed that we wouldn’t – there are a range of individuals – not President Putin – who have been engaged in this process in an unhelpful way, who have been helping the illegal activities, who have been providing financial support. There’s a range that are not yet sanctioned, but certainly we continue to look at. We have the ability through the executive order to also put in place sectoral sanctions, but it hasn’t changed that we’re not leading with the sanctioning of the leader of a country. QUESTION: So is it fair to say he’s off the table for now? MS. PSAKI: I don’t have any new update to tell you. Just to convey that there are dozens of individuals who have played unhelpful roles who we could certainly sanction if warranted. ###
Posted on: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 20:02:09 +0000
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