reposting extraneous pit bull discussion thread that spontaneously occurred on another thread where I am deleting those posts...but not deleting the ideas as they are here. Terry Ward my interest in pibulls hovers somewhere near my interest in genetic modification and clog dancing. But i said that already. 13 hrs · Like · 1 Linda Richter whats this clog dancing bashing 13 hrs · Like · 2 Rachel Coleman I actually find them very interesting from a genetics standpoint. But as someone with an interest in group psychology, I find it remarkably fascinating how remarkably similar both sides act, and BOTH sides exclude proven science on genetics, dog psychology, and the role of line breeding for personality traits over physical (or in physical traits while not considering personality.. or just blind breeding with inconsistent results.) Given I also work in a shelter with stray contracts in a very HIGH pit bull mix area, I also work with them quite a lot too, but I have a hard time agreeing with EITHER side because they both get it SO wrong.. if they blended both ideologies, it would be closer from a genetics standpoint. 13 hrs · Like · 2 Harve Morgan I would differ with that. I, and many others I know, have spent weeks studying just those very things. Granted we arent experts, but we have read the experts and we offer them quite often as proof of what we say. Some who have had grievous losses to a pit bull attack dont need to read up on those things, they come from a different place, one we hope we never discover. I aint a genius, I spent considerable time proving to myself that pits do indeed earn their bad rap, it was bittersweet. 13 hrs · Like Rachel Coleman Given you are where you are, I highly doubt you of the caliber of the masses in both groups. Like I said, I dont agree with either groups. I do agree that there are too many dangerous pits out, but given what I know about dog genetics and how easy it is to change a lines personality (aggression and/or drive) while still maintaining the same looks, I dont believe ALL of them are inherently. Physically, yes, but not mentally aggressive or prey driven. While I know people that have had their dogs attacked by loose pits, I also know people that have been living with pits for the last 20-30 years (sometimes with MULTIPLE in the same house) without any issues, scars, or lives gone on their conscience. I also like to look at it from a sociological standpoint. Pits, with their stigma, are bred irresponsibly by people that actually want to MAINTAIN that stigma.. They may or may not be breeding for aggression, or may just be breeding for a bigger tougher looking dog. Or they are irresponsibly bred by people that just didnt s/n their animals. Those dogs are then abandoned in high numbers, and fought over by rescues and volunteers even when the dogs ARE proven aggressive dogs (and HAVE bitten or attacked.) You then have anti-pitters going nuts which increases the stigma, and fuels the breeding.. and it increases how much more pro-pits will defend their dogs and claim pits are great with kids! (as if all of them are.. please.. not all dogs of all breeds LIKE kids, most can just injure them, not kill) and valiantly try to save a dog a that killed someone/thing to prove their point. You also have people claiming its all about how you raise them! which goes in the face of dog breeding, but turns to people adopting, buying, or acquiring pit puppies because that makes them safe. Yes, it HELPS, in some cases.. an aggressive dog will be aggressive no matter what... just like abused dogs can be happy and balanced and very trusting. Cant change genetics in an individual dog, but you CAN breed for a more tolerant, nonaggressive animal in a line of dogs, especially one so mixed as pit bulls are. Personally, I also argue that appropriate handling and restraint can be a deciding factor in some cases.. especially with dogs on the loose, or keeping kids from hanging all over dogs (which they shouldnt for any breed.) Heaven forbid you try to mention the role of hormones in dog aggression..Antis take it as an excuse, or not reality, and pros take it as opposition to their its how you raise them mentality. So yeah, sometimes I feel like I stand at odd. Not pro-pit, not-anti,not apologist.. I recognize them for what they are and treat them accordingly... but I guess thats what happens when you understand the role of dog genetics in behavior, and dog psychology/behavior/training.. no one likes you because you agree with neither commonly accepted side. Sorry for the rant... It just got me thinking about it because saying that to most other people digresses into name callings or showing me graphic videos when Ive already seen the sort in person... or cuddling with their animal. I know how loving they CAN be, but I also know how dangerous they are capable of being when in ill-trained hands with bad breeding, and an aggressive disposition. But thats why Im here. Most of you people seem to be more interested in the research, and not the drama or tear jerking melodrama. Me seeing or reading stories about lost kids does nothing but make me feel sad, education does. Shelters and rescues recognizing their role in the rise would also be of GREAT help if it helped shift policies back to where they SHOULD be. 12 hrs · Like Harve Morgan I consider myself a pit bull advocate actually as well as a pit victim advocate. I did ask if pits could be bred into the dogs they are claimed to be and away from the explosive pit that has been bred so far. I was told not really, pipe dream. I would like to believe it to true. That is why I campaign for regulation, heavy on breeding. I like pits, I dont like what they have been bred to do and the irresponsible breeding continues. 12 hrs · Like Rachel Coleman Theoretically, its possible. But not with the current breeding climate. Its really a lot like Russian roulette without KNOWING exactly what people are breeding from. I do side on the pit victim side. I do, however, believe many, if not all most incidences could have been avoided with some common sense or personal responsibility on the part of the owner (especially with at large dogs.) There was also that recent one where the woman was a temp home for a pit that had already BITTEN the kid in the previous home. While some kids under some parents can be downright jerks to dogs and not be stopped by the parent (plenty of videos for that..https://facebook/video.php?v=10201768181635203 is the WORST ive seen) , I would still NEVER place a dog that has bitten a kid into a home with one REGARDLESS of circumstances of the bite. If its a provoked bite, the dog is safe to be around kids, but not while being uncontrolled, but should probably be kept away from kids as the threshold may be far lower next time.. since theyve learn THATS what works to get a kid away.. not growling or snapping. Grant Teeboon I find this clip deeply disturbing on several levels... 12 hrs · Like · Remove Preview Harve Morgan Rachel Coleman These people have been told that the pit bull is a nanny dog, protects children, they believe the myth. Like Jeff Borchardt believed and it got his child killed. You cant blame people who know only the myth and not the truth. As for owners of pits, that is what needs to be regulated heavily. Not just anyone should have a pit, but it is the most pimped breed by rescues these days. 12 hrs · Like · 1 Rachel Coleman Exactly. While I LOVE pit bulls, they are not the dog for everyone. You need to have some basic ideas of what to do. It COULD turn out okay if you dont, or you could be in a huge load of shit. With the roulette breeding you will end up with in stray animals, you just dont know WHAT you are going to get.. so you need to ere on the side of caution, which is exactly the opposite of most shelters and rescuess. Hell, i see pictures of HUGE dogs going to homes with kids all the time.. half the time it turns out they didnt even do a meet with the kids. In a well-intentioned gesture, shelters and rescues damaging the reputation even more by lauding all of them as family dogs. Some can be yes, but I doubt the numbers that are going out are. Especially not when I see so many returns of he was just too high energy for the kids or something else Personally, Id be one for licensing to own pit and related strong breeds and they would need to be s/n. Heavy fines if they arent, curbing and containment ordinances would need to be upheld. Fines/fees would go towards s/n programs for all breeds and a victim fund. Of course, Im also for regulation with ownership in general and ALL breed breeding.. just because they arent killing/maiming anyone doesnt mean they are happy adjusted animals.. and if someone had a previous small dog, went well, and they decided they were experienced enough to have a pit, but just didnt have problems because it was a small dog incapable of damage? well wed have problems. I also see FAR FAR too many small dogs picking fights, biting kids, running around off leash with NO recall. I CRINGE when people use that nanny dog claim. That was ONE story someone printed that in decades ago, and people take it like its FACT. While some are GREAT with kids, its still a huge risk. ESPECIALLY if you have little understanding of dog behavior.. or allow your kid to do shit like the kid in the video, or hang all over your dog. I hate the dogs being hugged by kids picture.. what dog LIKES being hugged? Most just tolerate. Patience goes away as the dog gets older and less tolerant and BAM kid is scarred for life. Even with other breeds, it amazes me how much people completely misread a dogs body language. Tail wagging? Oh hes HAPPY! Hackles raised and in an alert pose? SURE lets go IN the yard with them! Licking lips and flashing whale eyes? Sure lets put our face in theirs or rub their belly.. Its even worse when you see kids interacting with all breeds, even when the dog is obviously stressed, parents do very little, dont notice at all, or boast how much their dog puts up with (THIS time.. next time? probably a bite if the dog realizes those warnings dont work.) No wonder its always hes never done that before! or no warning signs at all! people are clueless. You cant have that with a STRONG breed. 11 hrs · Like · 2 Harve Morgan Rachel Coleman What I see in your comment isnt good. I see someone who does not accept the genetics of the pit bull. I dont think you have any grasp of what the pit bull is doing and if you did, you would still defer to the old excuses of the children provoking their own attacks while the parents are neglecting them. You see the myth behind the nanny dog but still say that my side isnt offering anything credible. My side was the one who did the research and uncovered the nanny dog myth. If you were doing your research, you would realize that my side does present those credible studies that show pits arent meant for polite society. Right now, I realize that you are talking a good talk but I dont trust you at all when it comes down to it. 1 hr · Like Terry Ward
Posted on: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:39:16 +0000
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