How my debates go with UKIPpers...... UKIPper: Regarding the CBI link. I dont doubt the CBIs expertise in the world of European business but....and its a big but....the 400 businesses they polled are CBI members and those members know full well they are pro-EU and thats why they probably joined them in the first place. CBI have also had numerous grants from the EU (funny that isnt it?, ill try to find the printed evidence of this sometime this weekend) What their members dont seem to realise is that the UK can and will have FREE trade agreements after we exit from the EU. It is a general misconception that we wont. Would you like to know why? 29 minutes ago · Like ME: yes please Matt! Id love to know.... it might even change my position... I only say that because Ive read the legislation that says we lose our FTA as part of the leaving process and can renegotiate a new agreement of some description.... 27 minutes ago · Edited · Like UKIPper 1/ The UK are the EUs biggest customers - FACT. 2/ The EU export more to us than we export to the EU - FACT. 3/ Norway and Switzerland are not EU members and they trade freely with EU members - FACT. 4/ Norway is a member of EFTA and not an EU member and, as I have said above, are trading freely with EU member states. 5/ There is no restriction for the UK at all to become members of EFTA again, considering the UK were founding members of EFTA as well....so...... ME: that is just your opinion.... the facts seem to contradict you... 1. Agreed, the UK buys a LOT of our imports from the EU, and everything we buy is cheaper because we are able to trade without duties and tariffs because we are members. 2. In some sectors we run a trade deficit, including overall, but not in banking where we have a £17bn surplus, not in servces either, and not in online sales where the UKs 220,000 online retailers sell more to the EU than ALL the other EU countries e-retailers put together. 3. Not totally accurate....Switzerland do NOT trade freely with the EU.... their services sector and their banking sector have no free access to the single market at all. And in order to trade other product groups they have over 120 separate trade agreements that have taken over 10 years to negotiate before they came into force. 4. Norways membership of EFTA allows it free trade ONLY with Iceland, Lichtenstein and Iceland, the other EFTA members. It is their membership of the EEA that allows them to sell their OIL and GAS to the EU duty and tarriff free. THE ACTUAL REAL FACTS WRITTEN INTO LEGISLATION are: A) Article 50 says that a member state that wishes to withdraw from the EU has just 24 short months to complete negotiations for leaving, covering movement of people, trade, debt, finance, jobs in the EU and the UK and much much more. Bearing in mind that free trade negotiations take up to a decade to complete for a small country like switzerland... how long do you think it would take for the UK? Article 218(3) defines the rules for the negotiations and the priorities. so this means that what you say as your opinion and predictions about what may or may not happen is actually, just that... your opinion. the fact is that 24 months after we notify the EU we are leaving, we lose our FTA. We then have the possibility of renegotiating a new one. The ONLY way that can be done is by joining the EEA, and we cant join the EEA without joining EFTA. EFTA would NOT benefit from having the UK as a member, as the entire EU/EFTA relationship would need to be renegotiated.... and since the deal would be different, its unlikely the other 4 EFTA countries would get as good a deal as they have now, and would likely refuse a UK entry into EFTA. Then we have to apply to join the EEA in order to access the single market, which would again mean a renegotiation of the current agreement on trade between the EEA and the EU. So you are talking about predicting that the 4 EFTA countries are happy to have the headache of rengotiation, the 27 remaining EU states all agreeing on the terms of our new trade agreement, the 31 EEA countries as well..... WHY on earth would they all do that because we just left? AND how long do you think all that would actually take, even assuming that they DID all agree to the UKs new arrogant demands? Betcha that little lot would take a lot more than the 24 months we are permitted under international legislation! In the meantime while all these negotiations are going on over the next decade (or two) a non-EU United Kingdom would be subject to the EU common external tariff regime that would impose duties on all our exports making our products too expensive, and all our imports more expensive for Joe Public. It seems the facts trump your opinion? Your question Do I think that Germany will stop selling us goods? is moot since the legislation that they have to abide by will not give them that choice.... the law is the law and until its changed what will happen is that Germany will continue to sell to us here in the UK.... just it all becomes more expensive in line with the EU common export tariff regime.... in line with the LAW!
Posted on: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 23:18:02 +0000
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