Paul in Romans III cont. Chapter 4 (Can I just write it out) (1)What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? (2)For if Abraham were justified by woks, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. (3)For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (4)Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (5)But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (6)Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, (7)Saying, Bessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. (8)Blessed is the man to whom God will not impute sin. (9)Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. (10)How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circucision, but in uncircumcision. (11)And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: (12)And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. (13)For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. (14)For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: (15)Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. (16)Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (17)(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. (18)Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, so shall thy seed be. (19)And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarahs womb: (20)He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; (21)And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. (22)And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. (23)Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; (24)But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; (25)Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. Romans chapter 1 starts with Paul bashing the bad Jews and their wickedness in the closet, the result is to toss the baby with the bath water. In chapter 2 and 3 Paul offers LOGICAL not SCRIPTURAL arguments for this new grace based gospel and at the end of chapter 3 he concludes all to himself all of his spectacular discoveries. He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbor cometh and searcheth him. Prv.18:17 Lets review, One of the first comments made towards me from David Clayton featured Matt 8:10-12 which mentions the exercise of faith and the ingathering of Gods Kingdom. Just prior this in verse two (2) Jesus heals a man and then defends The Law and also the commandments of Moses. Matthew chapter eight ends with them casting Jesus out the city. Verse 12 was very thought provoking. David Bradshaw said Grace makes it possible for sinners not to die immediately upon committing sin. he also stated that Paul was primarily speaking to an audience that had totally misunderstood the concept of righteousness. I agree with his use of the term Grace and as far as if Paul was discussing righteousness or not his arguments are his own fabrication and are incorrect. No other Biblical author shares his opinions. Geoffrey Marshall pronounced the accepted Christian definition of Grace unmerited favor. Grace is the ultimate bly. he says. I am not convinced from scripture of unmerited favor, no one does anything without provocation. No one shows up at someone elses door for $1M without prior arrangements and God would never tell you to show up for $1M and give you your travel expenses and time away from work because thats all you deserved. Geoffrey also does not believe that unmerited favor is a construct of Paul but did not provide any scripture apart from Pauls so far in its defense. At this point we took an unfruitful detour into Grace where I first mentioned that the standard of righteousness for my old church (not any more) and for Israel was The Ten Commandments. Unfruitful because no author apart from Paul was ever mentioned. I also mentioned at this point that Grace bears several definitions in both secular and theological. Laval Wilkinson chimed in here with a sweeping accusation that, The only people who struggle with the concept of grace as an unmerited favor and the only means by which we are saved are those who read the bible to prove something. And I say I may yet have something to prove as Saint Peter asks me in 1Pet.3:15 But sanctify God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: As I alluded to before I believe it is important to show people from the Bible what I believe and for this reason I pour over scripture. Geoffrey here applied a logical argument using common terms applying oneself and earning grace. But I am yet convinced of a situation where one earns grace without the application of self as a necessary part of this salvation (unmerited favor). Geoffrey went on to offer up in John chapter 1 examples of different Biblical uses for the term grace (appreciated). I then decided at this point to continue through Romans as I intend to cover all of Pauls writings to confirm the discord his writings cause our faith and that he alone substantiates his arguments. I discovered in Gal. 1:16 that he preferred isolation to counsel but lets hold on as another story might emerge as we study. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND FEEDBACK! CHAPTER 4 v1 tell me Paul? v5 It has never been possible to hear of The Only True God of Creation without his principles attached, not even in our time. v6 Tell me Paul? v8 No Paul, David did not just say God imputeth righteousness without works. v9 Is it not as easy to say that God believed he would have performed that which was required of him even before he had performed that which was required? And that period of Gods forbearance was in fact a display of His grace until good works? v10 Paul you are rambling I see no conflict between faith and the uncircumcised as long as they do not remain in sin (lets not get side tracked on circumcision). v12 Where else in scripture can I go to substantiate this claim? v16 Here enters a justification for Islam. In Isa. 55:6 Gods says My ways are not your ways, Paul a zealous apostle through a written letter without counsel is arguing a point. How can then what is already laid in stone be argued or debated? I am looking for line upon line precepts upon precepts.
Posted on: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:26:14 +0000
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